He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out? What?

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Emily McFadden's picture
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DId the onering.com post somthing about Lee setting his differences aside, but would never forgive Peter Jackson for cutting out his one scene in ROK? I can understand it being upsetting, or getting someone angary....but "never forgive"? That really doesn't seem like Chris.\

When you think about it....out of everything that had to be cut...it had to be Lee's scene. I can not wacth the movie additions anyway, because I am always dieing for commontarys with Billy Boyd, or I just can not stop saying "awe, I want this scene in"

Alot was cut from ROK...it's not like it's easy to cut a film on such a scale. You got to cut some meat, even if it means injuring the body (did that make since? lol!). I wanted the scene with Fairamair and his father, and Pipin and Fairameir, and everything that was cut (but mainly Lee's film), but the cold truth of the matter is...somthing's got to go. People complan about the movies being to long anyway...think about sitting in a seat for four and a half hours. Your bladder would explode lol!

But you can stop DVDs, you can fast foward, rewind, pause....listen to comontarys...the extended vershions should be the better ones, the fuller ones.

Because let's face it...the film could have done alot worse. I think Peter Jackson had to make the cut, and I don't think Lee would say "no forgiveness" to that.

Life sucks....lol



Andrés Verdú's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

Emily McFadden wrote:
When you think about it....out of everything that had to be cut...it had to be Lee's scene.

Hello everyone,

Well, I've spoken about the removal of Mr Lee's performance from ROTK in previous posts, but seeing as the subject has arisen once more I'll try to give a brief comment. I don't agree at all with Emily that "out of everything that had to be cut...it had to be Lee's scene." In terms of narrative continuity, it makes no sense whatsoever to build up Saruman's role so extensively in TTT only to exclude him in toto from the cinematic release of ROTK. In my opinion it was an insult to the audience (and to Mr Lee for that matter) to reveal Saruman's fate in the form of a throwaway comment from Gandalf.

If one were looking to trim the length of the film, there are many other places to choose from: did the battles really have to go on for so long? Was it necessary to invent the relationship between Arwen and Aragorn (and dedicate so much time to it)? Did the audience desperately need jokes about how small dwarfs are every 10 minutes? I could go on. Please - this is NOT Tolkien; this is typical Hollywood reverting to the same old clapped out formulaic contrivances. Where is their sense of loyalty and imagination?

Of course Mr Lee's performance was excluded from the cinematic release: they needed something to stick into the Extended Edition of the ROTK DVD. For the previous two they had relied on the fact that the audience would be eager to get a preview into the next part of the story. As ROTK was the final part they couldn't do that. So what do they do instead? Remove an integral part of the storyline in order to sell more copies of the DVD version. Moreover, the way Saruman's fate was presented in the DVD EE left a lot to be desired!

I don't believe that Mr Lee would say he'd never forgive Peter Jackson, although I've seen this allegation on a few different sites. I think what is probably closer to the truth is that he will never understand the removal of the scene or forget about the episode. One should remember how very important The Lord of the Rings is to Mr Lee, and what happened must have been disheartening for him. I was really upset by it and I did not even have anything to do with it other than to watch it as a person who appreciates Tolkien, Mr Lee's work, and the attempt to translate a brilliant work of literature into film. How Mr Lee must have felt is unimaginable.

I am wholly convinced that the real motive behind the exclusion of Mr Lee's scene was to do with trying to make as much money as possible from the venture. After all, how long was it? Somewhere between 7 and 9 minutes. Are you seriously trying to tell me that a) they could not have trimmed some other parts, or b) included the scene anyway? After such a long film, what difference would another 10 minutes have made? No wonder this subject won't seem to go away - an injustice was committed to a highly respected actor and people have long memories:

Warmest regards,

Andrés

Marije Kraa (not verified)


Marije Kraa's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

From what I know I am most certain that Mr. Lee would never say such a thing such as 'unforgivable'. I recall he said that he found it an incredible shame with which I agree as I constantly was like "Where the heck did Saruman go? Is he in the hospital because he tripped over his robes in Isengard?"

I've sadly not seen the scene as I've only seen the rental DVD but I am sure it was a scene Mr. Jackson should not have removed as it was something quite important; along with many things you often see in book to movie films.

Take the latest Harry Potter movie, I mean, I found it funny/exciting here and there but I found the content compared to the book very disappointing.

ANyways, I"m starting to ramble so I'll stop right now



Maria Silbermann's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

Of course Mr. Lee is too much of a gentleman to say such a thing, but his fans will certainly not forgive nor forget than Lee was left out of the 3rd film in the cinemas! Call me shallow, but the only reason I went to the first film was because Christopher Lee was a featured player. Nope, I didn't go to the last film. I heard it was a "guy" flick that reveled in warfare, which isn't really my thing.



Paul Williams's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

It was an absolutely ludicrous decision of jackson to cut Mr Lee out.Personally,i think it was done to garner a more teenage audience for the film,especially since there were so many over extended love scenes... typical tried and tested hollywood watered down quality.If Smash Hits was still around ROTK would have been on the front cover.



Isabel Alves's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

Mr. Lee is above certain things... He is superior. Like this me leaning

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Jeffrey Rego's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

I, too, believe that Mr. Lee is above making such a statement. I also know that I am not. I will never forgive Peter Jackson for what is to my mind the most ridiculous and reprehensible editing decision in cinema history.

As much as I have enjoyed some of his films, I will never -- as in, never ever -- consider myself a "Peter Jackson fan."

Jeff



Brandon's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

Jeffrey Rego;40850 wrote:
I, too, believe that Mr. Lee is above making such a statement. I also know that I am not. I will never forgive Peter Jackson for what is to my mind the most ridiculous and reprehensible editing decision in cinema history.

As much as I have enjoyed some of his films, I will never -- as in, never ever -- consider myself a "Peter Jackson fan."

Jeff

Hmm...interesting. I like what Peter Jackson did with the LOTR films. Its nearly an impossible task to "do it right." I mean, each of those movies wouldve needed to be...7 hrs long to even really get it all in there. I think he did the best he could with time constraints.

However, after having seen all the extended versions multiple times...there were 2 specific scenes which, in my mind, should never have been cut for any reason. The first scene? Mr. Lee's final scene as Saruman. I remember seeing ROTK in the theater and thinking .WHAT?! And there Saruman must remain? Ridiculous. he was the main villain in the first two films! Awful decision to cut him out.

The 2nd scene that shouldnt have been cut for any reason was the "Mouth of Sauron" scene. The end of the movie, for me, was a bit anticlimactic on the Gandalf side of things. That scene shows that Sauron had still not yet taken form, and was lying about capturing Frodo. And yet, Aragon and company still fought on in the face of hopelessness!

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Kelly McDaniel's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

if he did or did not make the comment of not forgiving him, makes no difference to me. I think Mr. Lee's performance on top of Orthanc in the DVD is Oscar-worthy. He showed the world that he STILL is a star! It gives me chills every time I watch it!



Brandon's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

Kelly McDaniel;40916 wrote:
if he did or did not make the comment of not forgiving him, makes no difference to me. I think Mr. Lee's performance on top of Orthanc in the DVD is Oscar-worthy. He showed the world that he STILL is a star! It gives me chills every time I watch it!

It's SUCH a great scene! One of the best scenes in the movie. Saruman meets his end! I mean, if Peter Jackson were here in my home, he would not be able to convince me that there was good reason to cut that scene out.

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Kathrin Hauser's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

I agree, the Orthanc scenes are one of the best scenes in the movie!

Kathrin



Brandon's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part out?

Kathrin Hauser;40950 wrote:
I agree, the Orthanc scenes are one of the best scenes in the movie!

Kathrin

I love the scene where Saruman scowls..."Gandalf the white?! Gandalf the FOOL!"

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I don't think that Mr. Lee

I don't think that Mr. Lee would say something like that.  Perhaps he was frustrated, but "never forgiving" Peter Jackson?  Doubtful.  As much as I would have loved to see Saruman's final scene in theaters, we still have all of the magnificent Extended Editions available.  My cousin, who had not read any of Tolkien's work, assumed that Saruman had died from the massive flooding/Ent attack after watching The Two Towers with me (which he, being unfamiliar with the source material, greatly enjoyed).

In my opinion, Jackson's Lord of the Rings trilogy is one of the greatest adaptations ever made.  Sure, they made some understandable cuts (such as Tom Bombadil, who never added much to the progression of the story, IMO), but the Extended Editions are all over three hours.  The acting was top-notch, the battles were breathtakingly detailed, the spirit of Tolkien's work was preserved, and Middle Earth was presented as beautifully as possible.  Plus, who could forget their creation of Gollum, which still remains as a wonder of motion capture?  I also must ask:  did anyone else prefer Saruman's demise in Jackson's adaptations?  I never liked how he died in the Shire as a thief.  Seeing him fall from his own tower, only to become impaled on one of the machines of war that he had built was magnificent irony.



Jim Vincent's picture
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Re: He'll never forgive Peter Jackson for editing his part ...

I have not seen that report from Onering. I do recall, however, that in a previous iteration of this site, hearing that Sir Christopher was rather annoyed at the time with all the forum posts clamoring to reinstate his scenes in RoTK and for a while afterwards there was no forum section here.



Tom 02's picture
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Hindi Jokes

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Daniel Ognev's picture
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I do not think that Tolkien

I do not think that Tolkien wanted to represent Saruman as a usual thief. Saruman is the Evil. Saruman is the Darkness itself. Do you remember: "... a grey mist gathered, and rising slowly to a great height like smoke from a fire, as a pale shrouded figure it loomed over the Hill"? Compare: "... it seemed to them that, black against the pall of cloud, there rose a huge shape of shadow, impenetrable, lightning-crowned, filling all the sky". In my opinion Tolkien in "The Scouring of the Shire" wanted to say that you cannot completely defeat the evil and it can wait for you (as you do not wait it) anywhere. Even at your home. So it was the main mistake of Jackson. Needless to say,  I could be wrong.

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